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Discussione: Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler

  1. #11
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    Se riuscissi a trovarli ci sarebbero i filmati della Leibstandarte a Milano, dopo l'otto settembre, nei pressi di porta Venezia, se non ricordo male, ma niente [nero].

    Saluti
    Die Nadel
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  2. #12
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    Davvero?Vedremo di farglielo leggere allora.....[innocent]

  3. #13
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    Ciao die ti ho letto e lo trovo interessante aggiungo qualche cosa :
    100.000 uomini a metà* 1940, 150.000 a fine 1940, 220.000 a fine 1941, 330.000 a fine 1942, 540.000 a fine 1943, 910.000 a fine 1944 cioè a pochi mesi dalla fine della guerra per un totale di 37 divisioni oltre a corpi speciali.
    Di queste divisioni 16 erano corazzate non le elenco ma se interessa lo farò.
    Senza parlare poi delle TOTENKOPFVERBANDE se interessa elenco le unità* per anzianità*.
    L'uniforme dell'allievo ufficiale SS era composta di 27 pezzi ma quella degli ufficiali arrivava per raffinatezza a quelle degne della corte d'uno Zar.
    Sperando sia graditoposto queste con didascalia per miglior comprensione tratte da Storia del 1976

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    luciano

  4. #14
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    se glielo chiedi tu magari ti ascolta, io al massimo mi prendo un vaff....comunque le immagini sono state girate nella stessa piazza del Then & Now presentato oggi...magari prendiamo un frame e realizziamo anche quello.
    Non prendere la vita troppo sul serio.....comunque vada non ne uscirai vivo...

  5. #15
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    Complimenti veramente per l'accurata ricerca storica.L'ho letta con molto interesse.[ciao2]Gianfranco
    Gianfranco

  6. #16
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    Lo scrittore tedesco Jens Westemeier, dopo 15 anni di ricerche sta pubblicando un libro su Joachen Peiper che ne demolisce il mito. Su un forum ha scritto:

    "Nice discussion, old discussion:
    no, Peiper is not selling, specially not for me. Up to now, there is a very big minus and it was not my intention to make money out of this. And I got not any credits from the book, too. On contrary. But it had at least one wonderful outcome: the friendship with Danny S. Parker and nice contacts with other historians like Prof. James Weingartner.
    I started my research about 15 years ago, very naive and influenced by the typical SS books. And with this naive view I started my interviews with the SS vets and was very long convinced, that Peiper was a great soldier. I was wrong and as his former Adjutant Hans Gruhle said: Don´t dig to deep. And after this years of digging I have to admit, that I was very long misleaded by vets and people like Patrick Agte. Now for me there is nothing left of the Waffen-SS Icon Peiper.
    You will find big differences inside my books of 1996, 2004 (the book was prepared for 2001) and now the reviewed edition for January 2006 (I hope). A clear picture, how I had to change my opinion by the outcome of research work at the US National Archives, Ludwigsburg, Institut für Zeitgeschichte. A question of the sources, not a quetion of a personal agenda.
    I know, that the SS buffers are hating my book, have a look at amazon.com and the reviews by forum member Mr. Karl Richter (krichter33), but as Joachim Fest said: the sources are speaking for themselfes and I´m not in the mood to defence myself. It was not my agenda to destroy the Peiper icon, this "icon" destroyed himself by the sources. But after knowing all this sources, it is my intention to show, that the picture of Peiper given by apologists and neo-nazis like Patrick Agte is a big lie. His book is a shame for the victims and a shame for the Germans of my generation (born 1966).
    You will find very good sources about Peipers point of view as I would evaluate him as an so called "Alt-Nazi" and Peipers knowledge and duty during his time with his beloved and admired Himmler at Zentrale Stelle der Landesjustizverwaltung Ludwigsburg. There you will find a lot of statements given by Peiper himself. Very interesting are his statements from 1967 in the context with the Dr. Best trial. He speaks about the Ghetto of Warschau, the gasing of human beings, has always nice excuses, nice storries and not one word of regret. And he is terrible lying. Here only a very small example, not very important, only to show, that he was not this pure reburth of a saint. He said, that he did not join the SS voluntary, he was enforced to join the SS by a deal between the Reichswehr and the SS. A pure lie. And you will be horrified, if you read his statements about the gasing. He even looked through the window during the gasing, his description is ice cold. Yes, for Malmedy, there is no evidence, that Peiper gave the order to shoot the US prisoners, but this was never said in serious books, like Bauserman or Weingartner. It is a typical trick in the right wing books, to say, Peiper did not gave the order or he was not present at the crossroad. Yes, that is correct, but this point was even clearified during the Malmedy trial and was not the big point. But for example, he ordered the shooting of one prisoner at Petit Thier. His troops commited so many attrocities, at Russia, at Belgium, even some killings at Italia, no question that he was a war criminal and his SS spirit and leadership style was the background of the war crimes of his units. He never interferred in the killings of his soldiers, his soldiers knew, that he did not care about their war crimes. Yes, my book is full with examples, sometimes even admitted by vets (Otto Dinse, Walther Herbert, Fritz Kosmehl), but for sure you will never find anything of this in Agtes book. And Peiper the great Tank leader? I can not find any evidence. He burnt down the Regiment within 5 weeks in Russia and where is his brillant leadership during the battle of the bulge? And the Cuneo story about the rescue of the Berlin rabbi? There is no evidence. But forum member c.g. provided me with informations, that there was in deed a Berlin family, but they were sent into the gas chambers. And there is a good threat here about the involving of Peiper Bn in the arresting of the jews. Still something for a further research. From the about 400 Cuneo jews, it seems that 24 survived, perhaps there are some statements of survivers, who arrested them. If you think, this kind of research is a personal agenda, no, this is historical research, open minded in all directions. If you find in Agtes book not a single word about the holocaust or SS crimes, yes, this is for me a political agenda of the author.
    I hope, that my book will be published in English next year, the translation is in progress, and I´m sure, even the Peiper fans in the States will at least to start to think about some of that outcomes.
    I´m willing to discuss my sources and my evaluations about Peiper, specially after the new edition is on the market (no, it is not for the money, please ask Andreas Schulz or Dr. Dieter Zinke, with Biblio you will not earn much ), but I will not start any discussions in the way it has been here so often before with "panzermahn" and others. I´m too fad up with this, even by reading the old threats (Timo against others).
    If you want your nice Peiper hero picture, keep it. I have no agenda to convince anybody. And if you like to have the icon Peiper as the holy saint of the SS, stay with books from Agte and Kraetschmer ect. And as I underlined often before, I´m not omniscient and for sure not without mistakes.
    Greetings to all and thank you for all nice words and the support I got from many members here.
    Thanks
    Jens Westemeier"

  7. #17
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    Potresti fare una traduzione, per favore???
    Grazie

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  8. #18
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    Finchè non arriva la traduzione faccio intanto i complimenti a Luciano,spronandolo a continuare.
    Hei Fritz,non è che ti farai "rubare" il lavoro da Cocis?????

  9. #19
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    Citazione Originariamente Scritto da MULON

    Finchè non arriva la traduzione faccio intanto i complimenti a Luciano,spronandolo a continuare.
    Hei Fritz,non è che ti farai "rubare" il lavoro da Cocis?????
    Se sapessi quante volte quando intervengo questa domanda me la pongo.
    Se a die fà* piacere cito le divisioni corazzate e le TOTENKOPFVERBANDE
    [ciao2]
    luciano

  10. #20
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    Luciano,stai scherzando?Certe domande non te le devi nemmeno fare.Il tuo impegno sono linfa vitale per WW,per cui dacci sotto e anche di brutto.Quello che ho detto a Fritz è solo una provocazione per spronarlo.E speriamo che serva.....dai Luciano,continua pure,io sono davvero interessato.

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